quixotess:

deltumbles:

ftmfeminist:

hopeboysisacheapthing:

a-cockwork-orange:

IDK, I think it should be both? 

How would you suggest that one avoids being raped?

Last semester, in a sociology class, I was so happy to see several of the women in the class—who were, at first, wary and distrusting of feminism and feminist issues—start ranting, “Well why should I have to make sure I’m not showing skin, why should I have to never leave my drink unattended, why should I have to avoid walking alone after dark?” 

I think that there’s definitely things you CAN do to lower your risk of being raped, but nobody should HAVE to do them, and it’s not your fault if you don’t do them— which is what our society teaches us, and that’s completely bogus. also, the stuff they teach you doesn’t actually help most of the time, lolsob lolsob. 
the other thing— teaching “don’t get raped” kind of implies that rape is a natural and normal part of human societies, or that rape is inevitable and that people (generally women) just have to get used to it. that’s horseshit. if we/our society taught “don’t rape” it would mean that most people think that rape ISN’T inevitable or normal, and that it SHOULDN’T be common, that we CAN take steps to eliminate it. can you imagine that kind of world? 

I absolutely 100% support women asking “Why should I have to guard my drink? Why should I have to be scared of walking home at night? Why should I accept this?”
I have a couple of questions though, more about the original image, directed toward no one in particular. And anyone feel free to tell me I’ve totally lost the plot.
First, do you think there is a place for accurate information about predatory behavior? We’ve probably all seen that garbage column about “don’t wear a ponytail” and “you’re most likely to be raped in a parking garage,” and those aren’t anything but harmful. But like for example because of some school presentations and some prominently placed books in the middle school library I could tell you at a fairly young age some strategies that internet predators are likely to employ. Now that I’m older I could tell you even more such strategies, and I could also tell you some details about how they rationalize it to themselves.
Similarly, The Gift of Fear, while flawed, has also been helpful to me for identifying predatory strategies and escalation warning signs. Is there something that inherently normalizes rape culture in teaching people how predators behave and the most effective way to handle a stalker?
(One of the ways these kinds of conversations most often fail is in their failure to accurately describe what rape culture(s) look(s) like. Even feminists who are clear on the relative unlikelihood of being attacked by the “stranger in the bushes” vs. your own home will not mention the doctors, police, soldiers, and guards who are also the faces of rape culture. That’s one common way “advice to potential victims” fails.)
I also want to ask if you can teach people not to rape? How often in the history of rape has rape just been a result of a misunderstanding or the undereducation of the rapist? Versus how often has it been a deliberate act committed by someone who knew exactly what they were doing, who has probably done it before, and who is likely to go on to do it again? How would you teach someone like that not to rape? Do you believe that a predator can become a non-predator? Some of them? How long will that take? Who is willing to do that work for that long; i.e., who is willing to teach people not to rape?
Does this make any sense at all? I guess I’ve been confused by “teach people not to rape” for a while because to my understanding you usually have to wrest away the power to rape (either by changing social/bystander norms or by removing a particular predator from their potential victims) and you cannot in either case “teach” people not to rape, you have to force people not to rape.
What I do think should be taught is how rape happens and why and how we as survivors, as bystanders and as people have historically and can today work to end it, both on a micro level of individual interactions and on a macro level requiring such things as prison abolition. I do think people should be taught how to name and resist various manifestations of rape culture(s). None of that really falls under the heading “Don’t rape” though.

yeah, I am pretty much on the same page I think. 
recently I  was talking about this with a friend who’s in training to volunteer at a  women’s crisis and general information phone line.  part of their  training is general information about rape culture and myths around  sexual assault from a local sexual assault crisis centre.  one of the  women in the training group got really mad learning about the high rates  of sexual assault in everywhere and asked what she could do to protect  her children from this kind of abuse.  The trainers explained that as a  matter of policy they didn’t ever really talk about that side of the  equation, that they preferred to focus on changing the behaviour of  perpetrators.  I was kind of floored by their distance from the messy  complicated reality of this woman’s life, any life. 
like, this  is all well and good as a party line. obviously there is a  strategic decision being made here to do whatever it takes to move  public discourses away from victim-blaming.  and I basically support  that decision.  but we need to differentiate between the message we want to emphasise and the conversations we are allowed to have.   the fact is that there are some things that you can do or learn to  protect people you love or yourself from sexual violence; stuff like  bystander intervention tactics, spotting predatory behaviour, etc.  they  are not accessible to all people under all circumstances, they are not remotely infallible, and not doing them does not mean you are responsible for  violence perpetrated upon you.  but they exist, and if someone  acknowledges that ultimate responsibility lies with perpetrators but  still wants to do what they can to protect themselves then I don’t see  what it achieves to fob them off and keep them ignorant.  what are  people supposed to do in the interim between now and the end of sexual  violence in the feminist utopia, you know?  I think it’s a valid  question. 

quixotess:

deltumbles:

ftmfeminist:

hopeboysisacheapthing:

a-cockwork-orange:

IDK, I think it should be both? 

How would you suggest that one avoids being raped?

Last semester, in a sociology class, I was so happy to see several of the women in the class—who were, at first, wary and distrusting of feminism and feminist issues—start ranting, “Well why should I have to make sure I’m not showing skin, why should I have to never leave my drink unattended, why should I have to avoid walking alone after dark?” 

I think that there’s definitely things you CAN do to lower your risk of being raped, but nobody should HAVE to do them, and it’s not your fault if you don’t do them— which is what our society teaches us, and that’s completely bogus. also, the stuff they teach you doesn’t actually help most of the time, lolsob lolsob. 

the other thing— teaching “don’t get raped” kind of implies that rape is a natural and normal part of human societies, or that rape is inevitable and that people (generally women) just have to get used to it. that’s horseshit. if we/our society taught “don’t rape” it would mean that most people think that rape ISN’T inevitable or normal, and that it SHOULDN’T be common, that we CAN take steps to eliminate it. can you imagine that kind of world? 

I absolutely 100% support women asking “Why should I have to guard my drink? Why should I have to be scared of walking home at night? Why should I accept this?”

I have a couple of questions though, more about the original image, directed toward no one in particular. And anyone feel free to tell me I’ve totally lost the plot.

First, do you think there is a place for accurate information about predatory behavior? We’ve probably all seen that garbage column about “don’t wear a ponytail” and “you’re most likely to be raped in a parking garage,” and those aren’t anything but harmful. But like for example because of some school presentations and some prominently placed books in the middle school library I could tell you at a fairly young age some strategies that internet predators are likely to employ. Now that I’m older I could tell you even more such strategies, and I could also tell you some details about how they rationalize it to themselves.

Similarly, The Gift of Fear, while flawed, has also been helpful to me for identifying predatory strategies and escalation warning signs. Is there something that inherently normalizes rape culture in teaching people how predators behave and the most effective way to handle a stalker?

(One of the ways these kinds of conversations most often fail is in their failure to accurately describe what rape culture(s) look(s) like. Even feminists who are clear on the relative unlikelihood of being attacked by the “stranger in the bushes” vs. your own home will not mention the doctors, police, soldiers, and guards who are also the faces of rape culture. That’s one common way “advice to potential victims” fails.)

I also want to ask if you can teach people not to rape? How often in the history of rape has rape just been a result of a misunderstanding or the undereducation of the rapist? Versus how often has it been a deliberate act committed by someone who knew exactly what they were doing, who has probably done it before, and who is likely to go on to do it again? How would you teach someone like that not to rape? Do you believe that a predator can become a non-predator? Some of them? How long will that take? Who is willing to do that work for that long; i.e., who is willing to teach people not to rape?

Does this make any sense at all? I guess I’ve been confused by “teach people not to rape” for a while because to my understanding you usually have to wrest away the power to rape (either by changing social/bystander norms or by removing a particular predator from their potential victims) and you cannot in either case “teach” people not to rape, you have to force people not to rape.

What I do think should be taught is how rape happens and why and how we as survivors, as bystanders and as people have historically and can today work to end it, both on a micro level of individual interactions and on a macro level requiring such things as prison abolition. I do think people should be taught how to name and resist various manifestations of rape culture(s). None of that really falls under the heading “Don’t rape” though.

yeah, I am pretty much on the same page I think. 

recently I was talking about this with a friend who’s in training to volunteer at a women’s crisis and general information phone line.  part of their training is general information about rape culture and myths around sexual assault from a local sexual assault crisis centre.  one of the women in the training group got really mad learning about the high rates of sexual assault in everywhere and asked what she could do to protect her children from this kind of abuse.  The trainers explained that as a matter of policy they didn’t ever really talk about that side of the equation, that they preferred to focus on changing the behaviour of perpetrators.  I was kind of floored by their distance from the messy complicated reality of this woman’s life, any life. 

like, this is all well and good as a party line. obviously there is a strategic decision being made here to do whatever it takes to move public discourses away from victim-blaming.  and I basically support that decision.  but we need to differentiate between the message we want to emphasise and the conversations we are allowed to have.  the fact is that there are some things that you can do or learn to protect people you love or yourself from sexual violence; stuff like bystander intervention tactics, spotting predatory behaviour, etc.  they are not accessible to all people under all circumstances, they are not remotely infallible, and not doing them does not mean you are responsible for violence perpetrated upon you.  but they exist, and if someone acknowledges that ultimate responsibility lies with perpetrators but still wants to do what they can to protect themselves then I don’t see what it achieves to fob them off and keep them ignorant.  what are people supposed to do in the interim between now and the end of sexual violence in the feminist utopia, you know?  I think it’s a valid question. 

(Source: uselessperfection)